OP here. I forgot to mention this but if you have any early Vocaloid fandom memories or information you want to share in this thread feel free to do so.
Please no dramafagging thanks.

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These screenshots feel like I'm looking at recently discovered pictures of a historical event, cool find OP

Might or might not be related to this thread but i miss the forums era of Vocaloid
VO had its flaws but i enjoyed my time there and the old UTAU forum had some pretty helpful people in it

>>31842
What even was "Live Search"? I have never heard of that search engine

>>32021
Probably some obscure Microsoft thing from the Vista era back when everything was "Live", like Games for Windows Live *shudders*
I've used Google all my life (and iGoogle before they massacred like they do with all their obsolete products).

>>32024
>iGoogle
That's a name i haven't heard in a long time

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Already posted in the fansite thread but this is a Japanese website listing many fanloids. Including some which are potentially lost.
http://vocalchara.web.fc2.com/vocaloids/

>>32041
I had no idea there had been so many Japanese fanloids

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>>32041
I like how many of these just feel like OCs

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>>32041
one of my personal favourites is satsune wara (殺音ワラ). old yandere fanloids have a certain charm

>>32052
I know its been discussed here before but its weird how these iconic anime archetypes have been slowly becoming irrelevant with time

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>>32053
I really hope Still in Love from Uma Musume makes the yandere trope more popular again. Given how popular Uma is maybe it will? : ( I hope so... It would be cool to have more yandere utau again. I love Tei...

>>32069
Nothing's stopping you from making your own

>>32052
She looks like something that could be in Disgaea

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>>32071
What tropes are popular in anime nowadays?. I know about menheras, and we even have an UTAUloid based on that. But i think it'd be cool to make another one based on an anime trope.

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>>32108
You could say that the Fujoshi is making a bit of a comeback nowadays but it's not the classic fujo that nosebleeds and talks about Len and Kaito fucking. It's kind of a bastardized version of that, cause you know, modern internet values aren't compatible with the traditional fujo mindset.
But if you wanted to make an UTAUloid based on that trope i'd just say make a standard geek character with glasses.

>>32041
This is one of those sites that make me wonder where the creators of these characters went

>>32108
Mesugaki and otokonoko are still a thing.

>>32128
good luck getting either of those past modern fandom pearl-clutchers

>>32129
nta but if REML and Ui could get away with it, i don't see why not
as for otokonoko, come on we have ritsu

>>32129
Get "past" what? You know you can make things without the approval of people you shouldn't give a fuck about, right?

>>32129
Pretty overly cynical and strawman-y to act like anyone has any worthwhile issue with otokonokos

>>32136
This, also people forget that VIPPERLOIDs back in the day were made intentionally offensive (Ritsu being pro-NK, Tei being a shotacon, etc).

>>32128
Otokonoko have been a thing since forever though and I've been seeing less of them these days
Mesugaki on the other hand... but a lot of older Vocaloids already fit this archetype so idk, also Ui exists.

>>33020
yknow it would be fun to combine both

>>32148
I thought Tei being in love with Len was a playful jab at Len fangirls, not a part of her shock factor. Shotacon wasn’t a big deal (in the circles I was in, anyway) back then.

>>33114
That's the point

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>>33114
I had no idea they were technically 5 years apart because her designer drew aged-up Len

>>33114
>I thought Tei being in love with Len was a playful jab at Len fangirls
I'm pretty sure that's what Tei's concept is based on. She's meant to be a parody of the now extinct internet species known as Len fangirls. They used to be horny, rabid and obsessive.

>>33130
Strange to think that Len fangirls have been replaced with Teto fanboys

>>33133
VIPPAloid based on Teto fans...

>>33133
Idk, I kinda prefer the Len fangirls over the Teto fans. And it's funny to think that back in the day they were seen as a nuisance, lol.

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Years later i still like TeiLen more than any other ship involving them

>>33130
Extinct? No, they're endangered

>>32108
More of a fashion thing but i guess the gothic lolita is trending again

https://youtube.com/watch?v=XaJEx7ftKUc

One thing i miss about the early Vocaloid community is that experimental things like vid related and all of the song parodies would go viral and no one would question it. That's something I no longer see anymore.

>>33964
I think there's still a demand for original songs that look and/or sound weird. The lost media people absolutely love that stuff and a few years ago we got Scapegoat-P back as a result.

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If anyones interested in pre-Miku era discussion, i still to this day think about Vocaloid-User. TLDR its an old, ooolld English speaking forum for Vocaloid users BEFORE Miku was released, and its existed since 2004. Picrel. Apparently it hosted tons and tons of mp3 files featuring pre Miku Engloids and not a single one of those files are accessible now. I cry.

>>33968
Holy fuck, this is gold. Somehow i've never even heard of it.

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>>33970
Yeah, its great. A lot of pages are archived on Wayback, mainly concerning the forum. Seeing people talk about Leon and Lola near time of release is incredibly amusing to me. Picrel.

>>33972
Lol, they were trying to find the voice providers even in 2004.

>>33972
the original "Len is better than Justin Bieber"

Part of me wonders how much of Vocaloid-User was tech ojisans getting excited for new (at the time) technology the same way a lot of them are into the whole AI voice cloning crap now

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>>33973
Its basically been soft confirmed through a blunder on Zero-G's part while recording the original V1 tutorials that shipped off with Leon and Lola. Cross referencing those folder names "Lance" and "Juliet" with the publicly known knowledge that both people are "successful session singers in the UK", the most likely candidates would be Lance Ellington and Juliet Roberts for Leon and Lola respectively.

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>>33974
I'm bored

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>>33978
Here, a higher quality version

>>33977
All the notable artists who got involved with Vocaloid back then were middle-aged guys, so this would check out

>>33984
And one of them was none other than Mike Oldfield lol

https://youtube.com/watch?v=xD11FpDa3NY

>>33985
Him and Miriam were also friends.

Mike is the original "I made a song with my friend's voicebank" guy.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5ne0N41AFek

>>33978
If this is true, I guess it explains why they weren't confident about Vocaloids as lead vocalists. There's no way you could make a VB sound like this in 2004.

>>33987
Damn, this is 90's as hell, love it

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-wJOqhUKlSY

>>33986
Miriam is also friends with Lance, who voiced Leon.

>>33987
How hard is it to tune in V1 compared to later versions? Because considering what Mitchie M managed to achieve with V2 (i think that's what he used?) it shouldn't be impossible, just extremely difficult and tedious.

>>33989
Well this confirms it
Is anything known about the opera singers and Sonika?

>>33991
Or the cybers (samefagging)

>>33993
Cyber Diva is Jenny Shima, and the only reason we know this is becuase she accidentally broke her NDA once. Sonika and Prima/Tonio are still unknown as far as I know but people say that they were brought back for Zero-G's new opera voice synth.

>>33990
You could get Lola to sing something like that in V1, and it could sound nice but obviously nowhere near the level of great as the original VP. Which given ZeroG marketed them lowkey to be vocalist replacements, people were rightfully dissapointed when thats not what they got at all

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZwqqWwh4kcE

>>33990
There's a lot of old Meiko and Kaito users who swear by V1, and they've managed to make them sound close to human, albeit with several years of experience. The bigger issue would be Lola's recordings... I don't think they fully understood how different Vocaloid recordings are from natural singing.

>>34001
The goated users who actually know how to use the Resonance filters. Ive yet to see any V1 Engloid users do something of this quality

>>34002
To be honest I don't think the number of active V1 Engloid users has broken the double digits in two decades

>>34008
Which is probably the main reason lol. Tis a shame because theyre quite easy to pirate, and they work on Win11. (for legal reasons this is a joke)

>>34010
Descargabros

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>>33977
Earlier note, but this right here may be the very first instance of vocaloid users fighting each other

>>34017
Ah, an old tradition that never dies

>>34017
Some things never change

>>33968
>>33972
So Vocaloid kinda had a fandom pre-Niconico?

>>34449
Kind of, but it was more like a niche hobby. People didn't post a lot about the characters until Miku came out.

By the way, the Vocaloid thread on /dtm/ is literally older than the V1 announcement date on Wikipedia
http://mimizun.com/log/2ch/dtm/1046318791/

>>34453
I'd imagine there was at least one Meiko or Kaito fan prior to Miku. V1's designs are appealing.

>>34455
shu-t if I'm not mistaken

>>34455
It's true, Miku kinda exists because some guys said Meiko was their waifu

>>34462
Funny if true, because they could've tried to make Meiko more moe

>>34465
I think it makes sense that they didn't - Meiko's VA isn't an otaku at all. It worked out better to hire established seiyuu.

>>34466
Fair enough

As someone who wasn't around for the early days of UTAU can somebody explain Aiko Kikyuune's popularity?

>>35911
or at least what made her popular in the 2000's / 2010's because she seems forgotten now but i recall that back then she was very popular and even ended up in vocamerica.

>>35911
>>35912
I think it's cause she was owned by an Overseas Utau staff member but i could be wrong. I admittedly didn't care much for UTAU back then but i remember her creator being active on that forum.

>>35915
She also got an AI voicebank recently for Mikoto Studio. But you know how that turned out.

>>35911
She received continuous support from her VP who has been a productive UTAU user since the early days. Sort of the same story for Karasu Yuutsukoe

>>35915
Basically yeah, her VP was also the head UTAU moderator on VO so that's how she had mainstream connections

>>35916
Remind me why that failed again?

>>35923
The crowdfund failed and it was essentially just UTAU but paid so it never really took off but the team's still working on it.

>>35921
Do we have connections?

>>35921
Kinda crazy to think how influential that forum was on the western Vocaloid fandom as a whole. Pretty much every Zero-G voicebank from the V3-4 era exists as a result of it, and VocaTone too owes its entire existence to VO. I wonder if we'll ever see anything like that again. Probably not since Twitter's where most people hang out now and VocaVerse doesn't seem to have the same level of influence VO once had. I could maybe see something coming out of 39chan but nothing major.

>>35927
Yeah, its a bit upsetting that so much documentation on it has been lost and all that remains are statements from people that were there.
If that Vocapedia thing ever goes somewhere i hope we eventually get a large article on it.

>>35925
Is a friend of a friend of a friend connections?


nah as of yet no connections.

>>35930
I know this guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy...

>>35927
Iirc, virtually every western producer from the early days used VO, even if they didn't actively post. It was standard to scout other posters on the creative subforums and then add them on Skype to make projects. Nowadays that's definitely been replaced by social media and dicksword.

>>35934
More reason to document its history then

>>35935
I would but i was never active on it. I only know about it through stories and from lurking a bit while it was still online.

>>35942
I was active but I'm honestly not sure how to condense the site's history into a wiki article. Most of the surviving VO oldheads remember it as a hotbed of drama and discourse, so there's never been much motivation to look back on it in that way.

>>35946
There's one on Fanlore but it's very surface level and doesn't have any info for the stuff that happened between launch-closure.
https://fanlore.org/wiki/Vocaloid_Otaku

>>35947
Oh wow, this links to an abandoned VO wiki from 2009.
https://vo-vocaloids.fandom.com/wiki/VO_Forum
There was definitely a lot more deviantart RP culture on there at the beginning, before the Vocaloid Wiki guys shamed people out of it.

>>35946
It was a hotbed of drama and discourse but a lot of things came out of it like >>35927 said. Avanna, Oliver, Ruby, etc basically wouldn't exist without it.

>>35952
And Stella

>>35956
and NATA/VERA

>>36086
Wholoids

>>36086
Well, VERA notoriously didn't come out of it

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Learned about usenet archives (archives of really old internet talk boards) and wanted to see if i could find anything early Vocaloid related and, lo and behold:
https://usenetarchives.com/view.php?id=cakewalk.audio&mid=PDQwMjk3NmExJDFAbmV3cy5zdGFyaHViLm5ldC5zZz4

Old cakewalk usenet thread from Feb 2004.

>>36104
Miku has a soul

https://youtube.com/watch?v=RsKXxDZh99Q

Not sure how many of you have seen this but a while back they found audio of the first ever Vocaloid concert featuring Miriam.

>>36187
there's also pics but i'm sure you all have seen them

https://youtube.com/watch?v=N19sc7Mpkhs

>>36187
Here's something even better
VIDEO FOOTAGE!!

>>36187
Unrelated to the video but what was vocaloid.wiki (the site linked in op's channel)
https://web.archive.org/web/20150411023920/http://vocaloid.wiki/
Seems to have been an early attempt at migrating from fandom but it never went anywhere?.

>>36190
To think that this predates MikuFes, MikuExpo and Magical Mirai

>>36190
For such an important piece of Vocaloid history i'm surprised by how little views this has
Anyway we need another Engloid concert NO NOT VOCAMERICA

>>36190
how the hell have i never seen this before lol

>>36193
Vocamerica but with the budget of VM

>>36200
We'll call it Vocameurope

>>36190
AYYYY THATS BASED
I thought this was the slideshow that was passed around years ago but no! This is an actual video! Thats great!

>>36190
what the hell? i thought this was fully lost?

>>36193
We're sadly(?) past the V4 era. I doubt most people care about Engloids enough to make a Vocamerica style project.

>>36190
Expectation: Miriam Stockley Hologram
Reality: Two random Russian women dancing.

>>36234
i mean it was pre-miku

I haven't been looking at community side of the things at the time so I want to ask here if anyone was watching these discussions at the time:

a lot of people say 2016 to 2020 (especially around 2018) were kinda slower years where things got a bit gloomy within the community but looking back some of my favorite songs and real classics are from those years, looking at the song outputs per year numbers also look kinda close to 2012 and before. Are people being a bit too dramatic when talking about those years or did it really felt bad? I partially blame hachi and crypton for selecting the "doomposting final boss song" as the MM theme song but maybe I'm over exaggerating a single songs effect.

>>36316
all V5's fault I tell ya
but actually those years did feel off. i think a lot of fans got busy with life, at least I did. Might've just been caused by a series of coincidences

>>36319
It's likely not V5's fault

>>36319
Considering how many songs were made during covid and how many of those songs were made not only by new producers but likely using v5, I don’t think so.

If anything I think it might have been partly Sand Planet. Leading up to 2020 from 2016, Sand Planet felt like a nail in the coffin at the time. So many producers starting to get outside of the space and into the industry. I think it kind of set a precedent for this idea of Vocaloid being dead, Vb development slowing down also didn’t help. This is all just opinion though.

>>36316
Gotta remember, it wasn’t just the MM theme, it was the Miku 10th anniversary theme.

It’s so cool how they asked Hachi to write for Miku’s 10th and he responded with a song about how the scene was dead and bad. In hindsight, I think the mood he was trying to capture was more related to Niconico’s loss of users to Youtube. Of course that set up for the proliferation of Vocaloid on YT a couple years later. We could argue about whether or not that’s bad, but either way, the vocaloid fandom didn’t evaporate.

>>36316
It was pretty rough for the long-time fans. Niconico was collapsing, commercial projects were shelved, and most oldgen producers lost interest in the scene. It was the era Project Diva died, for instance.

On the other hand, there were definitely newer producers that thrived in that era, and that became more widely recognized from 2020 onward. At the time, I think the community was just too fragmented - there wasn't an obvious monoculture like the eras before and after.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Qs1spSzwSPE

>>36326
I see a lot of people blame Sand Planet as the cause, but it was more like the final peak of that discourse before the backlash started to settle in. The Real Disappearance of Hatsune Miku got away with a much harsher take in 2015, to give an idea of where things were at.

>>36327
They should make kenshi yonezu turn into hachi for one last time and create another doomposting song for next year

It only felt like Vocaloid was "dead" mostly on the Westerm side. There was never a point on the side of the JP side of the fandom where there was not a large amount of popular new Vocaloid songs.

The grief that side of the fandom was having at the time had moreso to do with the fact that the Vocaloid scene was CHANGING, not dying. It was the fact that multiple OG producers were moving on from the fandom, (although there was definitely a healthy stream of new guys coming in) and the sharp decline in the usage of actual Vocaloid characters in Vocaloid music. A lot of songs from the era were using their own OCs in favour over the actual Vocaloids at the time, a trend that was started by Kagerou Daze.
Sand Planet didn't "cause" the Vocaloid fandom to peter off, it was a representation of what the current state of the scene was at the time. And the song didnt allude to Vocaloid dying, but again, changing.

The overseas side of the fandom did experience a dip in popularity because of the rise in mascotless Vocaloid songs, because that side has always been heavily invested in the characters. So while it FELT like Vocaloid was dying at the time, thats not entirely accurate.

Unless we're talking about Vocaloid as in the synth platform. They did completely kill their momentum with the release of V5 and while it didnt literally kill them they still havent entirely recovered from it either.

V5 is such a weird engine and to this day I have no idea what the point of it was. Sure, when it comes to UI and features it's a lot better than V4 and everything that came before, and it did help shape V6. But why did it just come out of nowhere at a time when companies were still developing for V4 with few voicebanks and ports no one had asked for?.

where were u wen vocaloid die

i was at house eating dorito when phone ring

"vocaloid is kil"

"no"

https://youtube.com/watch?v=2cniFuWefoI

>>36342
If i had to guess it might have been rooted from a common sentiment in the fandom before V5 that Vocaloid needed to be more usable for "professional producers" at the time.

Mainly because Vocaloid at the time did not have the best DAW support (which is crucial for a lot of peoples workflows), and the voices weren't too appealing for people who WERENT interested in moe anime girls. There was definitely a sentiment of "we want Vocaloid to be mainstream!" amonf the fandom at the time.

Problem is Yamaha severely overcorrected when they made V5 by screwing over all of their third party VB developers, and losing Crypton, Zero G, and others as a result. They told none of them ahead of time what they were doing. There was also significantly less of an otaku appeal and more of an attempt at mainstream appeal. There just wasnt a lot to love for its current user base, and while they did get a little bit more outside appeal they moreso ended up backpedaling that more than anything.

One last note is that you can even see them trying to take this angle in the V4 era with that god-awful "Humans are still singing?" commercial. Vidrel.

>>36349
Ironically that's how Vocaloid started, by attempting to appeal to professionals. The otaku culture surrounding it is something they can thank Crypton for, lol.

>>36342
It was originally supposed to be the introduction of the AI Engine, but because it was incomplete, the focus shifted to trying to grow their professional user base, which worked extremely well.

VB development dropped a lot, but V5 was still quite successful despite popular belief. It's a stark reminder that vb development doesn't equate to success.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=bm6oXRXbi1U

>>36341
>It only felt like Vocaloid was "dead" mostly on the Westerm side
Most of what you're saying is true, but the "Vocaloid is dead" posting really did start in Japan. Even though the fandom never literally died, the sudden collapse of Kagepro kicked off a decline that didn't fully reverse until the end of the decade. It was more like a Vocaloid recession.

Western fans might exaggerate how bad things were in the late 2010s because of the death of fansubber culture. We were pretty much cut off from Japan during the early stages of the YT migration.

>>36349
In fairness, while V5 did disrupt things on that end, at the same time, a lot of these changes were starting before it. The most significant change before V5 being Hideki leaving the team in 2015.

>>36365
>Western fans might exaggerate how bad things were in the late 2010s because of the death of fansubber culture.
They definitely overexaggerate things a lot. I would say it's probably an accumulation of changes tho.

Ngl, wvf still overexaggerates a lot.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UCxkZhPDJAE

>>36355
Truth be told, Vocaloid actually gained an audience on 2ch right away, Crypton just rolled with it

>>36372
I'd imagine it was seen as more of a novelty and used in a "meme" way back then though. Kinda like with VIP SENSEI.

>>36365
I'm a little biased, but as someone who was mostly on the Western side at the time it didn't feel dead at all. The Japanese side did feel a lot more isolated from us, but we still had a few producers that were getting decent views and gaining popularity. It wasn't nearly the same amount as now, though. And while I do miss voicebank variety at times (and think the community is making progress on getting it back), the late 2010s really did have a problem with people mimicking other producers' work in a similar way people did with Mesmerizer in 2024-2025. It's just that people used Gumi and Yohioloid instead of Miku and Teto.

>>36373 (me)
Bit unrelated but was the VIP SENSEI "ROBOvoice" vocal ever identified? I remember people saying it was Big AL or VocalWriter but it predates Big AL and none of the Vocalwriter vocals I've heard sound anything like it.

>>36374
>while I do miss voicebank variety at times
We have more voicebanks than ever now lol. V6 is essentially just V3 but done in the AI era, and outside of Vocaloid you have SV, VoiSona, Cevio, UTAU, ACE, etc.
If you meant producers using more than just Miku or Teto though I agree

>>36376
>spoiler
Yeah that's what I meant, people do overuse a lot of voicebanks despite all the new releases

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MEGcs6spUFw

>>36373
There was some of that, but there was also genuine interest in the technology mixed in. This cover from around Meiko's launch won over a lot of people in VGM circles, for example.
Of course, there were also a bunch of people who thought Vocaloid was a meme program until Melt became popular.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=zbiujmQ-yU4

>>36375
The original ROBOVoice guy confirmed that he used VocalWriter, so the VIP Sensei guy probably used it too

>>36386
I remember someone sharing a 2ch thread from around the time Vocaloid released and there were a bunch of links to songs made with the V1s that are all broken now.

>>36390
Link rot is depressing

>>36374
It definitely seems like the western side has never crashed in any noticeable way. At the same time, though, it felt like there was a constant backlash towards it that only really went away a few years ago.

>>36402
I'm glad the era of "every english vocaloid song sucks" is over. Now it's the "every vocaloid song sounds the same" era that needs to end. Looking at you red menace.

>>36403
You could say that about the GHOST clones back in the day

>>36316
I wonder how big is the "I only enjoy this myself without getting involved in community" side of Vocaloid is. I'm asking this because even in those doomer years live events were happening as usual including expos and I doubt people were going around talking to others about how things changed and scene is dying etc.

>>36422
>>36403
That was exactly what I meant by the Gumi/Yohioloid thing lmao. I admittedly do like a lot of GHOST clone songs, and some of them way more than the artist's that inspired them. I don't like the current Mesmerizer clone trend, and I'm glad it's winding down a bit.

>>36403
People say that English producers overuse Teto but to me it feels like the other way around. English producers are more likely to use other voicebanks from time to time like Yi Xi, Miku, Gumi or some other unusuals choices like Iroha and Mai. It's mostly Japanese producers I see overusing Miku and Teto.

>>35948
Deviantart RP culture is a lost art

>>36403
There's definitely still people who dismiss the entire English scene as lower quality. Though a majority of the people who think this way have only heard the stuff that's popular.

>>31837
>I found a website on FC2 explaining the "disappearance of Hatsune Miku"
I'm surprised that someone bothered documenting this in the form of a website in the 2000's. Was it really that big of a deal?.

>>36461
It was a big deal back then, although I don't think the site explains it very well. The TV special was supposed to be an overview of Miku with Crypton's participation and Otomania as a special guest. Then the network cut Otomania's segment without telling him and replaced it with a weird cringe compilation video of a random autistic Vocaloid producer, which pissed everyone off for a week. (Akita Neru was based on a guy who kept defending it just to troll people)
People found out about the Google and Wikipedia incidents right afterwards and thought "they're trying to shut down Hatsune Miku forever!!!!"

>>36468
And now she's everywhere you look in Japan, who's laughing now?

>>36461
Big enough of a deal to spawn 2ch drama, two songs about it, a whole movement that somehow managed to spread to Deviantart and a whole fanloid

I wonder if 2ch was ever circlejerky with their VIPPERLOIDs and attempted to add some type of lore to them beyond what was already established

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>>36504
Teisquid

>>36506
We have Takoluka at home

>>36506
When are we gonna make our own shitty mascot derivatives

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>>36615
We already have

>>36615
We have Etto and Snailna

Japanese vocaloid news blog that's been around since 2007 and still gets updated to this day. http://hatsunemiku.blog107.fc2.com/

>>38140 Neat find. I was wondering if there's an english equivalent and there technically was but it shut down like 2 years ago. I'm of course talking about Mikufan.